Hello and welcome to the right side of middle. Monthly church attendance in England and Wales has jumped by 50% in 2024 amongst Gen Z. The spectator calls it a full blown resurgence, reshaping Britain's moral imagination, capped also by the appointment of a new archbishop who is female. So what are we turning away from at the moment, and why the Christian colour? Hello.
Maisie:I'm Maisie Gallagher, and welcome to the right side of middle, a podcast for people seeking moral clarity in an extreme world. We pull up a chair, challenge assumptions, and have a worthwhile conversation. Each episode, we will explore difficult choices, ethical tensions, and refuse easy answers. Together, we will drive calm, rigorous conversations that cut through current outrage culture, offering tools to make better decisions and arrive at our opinions with intention. Hopefully, we will leave with clearer principles, sharper judgement knowing exactly where our feet are.
Maisie:So tune in, pull up a chair, and let's try to restore some thoughtful conversation. Today, we're discussing back to belief. Why is there a Christian revival? And what can I take from that? So we're gonna look at the numbers, statistics, both in The UK and The US, look at modern leadership and how that might help influence a return to faith with a new female archbishop, we're see we're And going to then what are we currently rejecting and what are we embracing in this increase in statistics.
Maisie:Okay. So let's get into the numbers. UK and US, in England and Wales, monthly church goers have climbed from 3,700,000, around 8%, in 2018 to 5,800,000, 12% in 2024. Eight to 12 doesn't sound like a lot, but actually when we put it in, the amount of people that are going to church is quite substantial. Both The Guardian, The Observer, reputable newspapers, given any kind of political view or opinion, are noticing this resurgence.
Maisie:In terms of who's leading this this weekly attendance, seems to be Gen Z. I've never been a 100% sure on the categories of Gen Z versus for millennial, but the point is is that it's not just boomers or older age people, it's actually young people who are engaging with the church again. And again, if if we're looking at male to women, there's also an even more increased proportion of young males that are returning to church. So across the Atlantic, the New York Times reports that Gen Z and millennials have become America's most church going cohorts, stabilizing monthly participation around 50% after years of decline. Gosh, there seems to be a little bit of a buzz or an incline at the moment.
Maisie:And I guess from my perspective, I have seen that, right? So both in my own personal life and equally, when we look at what we see online and and and the people in our communities, there is a real return to Christianity, return to trying to understand our finite connection with the infinite, and also, I guess, kind of reassessing the role of science, statistics, and even kind of atheist ideology, whether you whether you view it as an ideology or not, and trying to arrive somewhere that's a little bit more purposeful and intentional. So when we consider modern leadership, so what does the church look like in 2025? That's a that's a big question. Well, from a Christian perspective, kind of closer to home in The UK, we've just had, obviously, a new female archbishop, Dame Sarah Mullally.
Maisie:I hope I've got that right. So her achieving or being granted or kind of being promoted into the role of archbishop, it breaks a 1,400 year old tradition of male archbishops. So what does that say? That says that the church is evolving and learning that it needs to evolve, not only in order to keep relevant, but to reflect moral truths. And I know that there's a divided opinion potentially within certain specific sectors of the Christian community, but I think that most people would support men and women having equal rights within faith based roles.
Maisie:So, yeah, big moment for the Church of England and interesting to see how that will track through to how the Church of England interacts with younger people. I know from my perspective, it definitely makes me more inclined to respect church leadership in a certain way, and know that, both men and women have a place inside the Church of England equally. So I guess if we kind of break this down, we've got increased church attendance, we've got an opportunity within The UK with evolved kind of leadership and an increasingly tense geopolitical world going on. Everyone seems to be getting more extreme and more divided, so where does Christianity kind of come into this? And I think that's a fair question.
Maisie:So so what are the the kind of key needs do we think that are are driving this return to Christianity? What are people hungry for and what are they turning away from? So I guess if we consider the last ten, twenty, thirty, forty years, there's been a real focus, rightly so, on, you know, statistics, science, evidence, and more of a kind of empirical approach to society and and and how we view knowledge. Now, granted the fact that there's a lot of arguments to say that that is also intertwined with faith, And, you know, some of those I would actually agree with. But I suppose what we're talking about is the why rather than the what and the how.
Maisie:So I guess I kind of brought broke this down into to kind of four key points, really. We've always we've always engaged with storytelling, and and that's not me to reduce the bible to storytelling, but we've always engaged with moral truths, lessons, characters, figures in a way that helps drive our own self development in a really meaningful way and see ourselves in others. And I guess when the bible uses parables, when Jesus talks through parables or when we look at some parts of the old testament, we can still see ourselves in those people. And whether or not you're religious or atheist, there is no doubt you can read something and take something that is not empirical or not scientifically verifiable, but still know this is a lesson. So, of, give you any example, if you if you read a story about a boy who wouldn't share, and then at the end of the story, he learns to share and and life goes a lot easier, you can still take moral nudging and insight from that.
Maisie:But I guess, you know, the the counter argument is okay. Well, why can't I just read a storybook? Why does it why does it happen to be the bible? And I guess it's more about, you know, a connection with, as we've talked about previously, the infinite. So me as a finite being trying to continually progress, be better, be Christ like, be not necessarily God like, but be Imago Deo.
Maisie:Right? So be be made in the image of God. But then a constellation of factors that goes with it. So Christianity gives people a purpose and a meaning. And I guess that comes along with that is a community.
Maisie:And this is one of the the the biggest things, I think, in terms of when we're talking about church attendance, because you, you know, you could argue either way, but you could still count yourself as Christian, read the bible every day, pray every day, share your faith every day, but not necessarily go to church. So why why rise in church attendance? Well, I guess in a in a framework that we currently live in where, I'm recording this podcast on a microphone, I'm recording it on video too, because apparently that's the done thing now, everything's digital. We barely kind of call and have long conversations on the phone. It's a quick text here or there.
Maisie:But equally, I also think, you know, the idea of a house phone is is pretty much going down the pan. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that when you're in church, there are a few things you do. Right? So you try and dress well, not necessarily your best, because sometimes my my church is a little bit cold, so I have to put on a comfy comfy jumper and coat. But I guess the point is is that you try to to bring your best self to church.
Maisie:So you dress well, you greet people with kindness there, you contribute, you I think we all get sucked into doom scrolling, a state of want. I need this, I want that. And then hours go by. And even the practice of having time with the community, but they are also focusing on how to be better people, also focusing on meaning and purpose and a higher being than themselves. I guess that puts you in a position of either community or not necessarily lesser than, but you're humbled and you aren't the centre of the universe, which I think sometimes a lot of whether it's social media, digital, posting pictures of yourself, likes, affirmation can can make you a little bit of a law onto yourself.
Maisie:But I guess within that though, the context of of community and meaning, Christianity is also offering a stable moral framework. So regardless of how you may interpret parts of the bible, and and definitely know that I've I've got my own views on some of them, but kind of abstaining from contentious points and and historical context, if we're actually focusing on the core messaging of the Bible as a moral framework, love thy neighbor, respect your parents, continuously turn the other cheek, forgive them. We desire mercy, not sacrifice. It's a key one. What's that for a moral framework?
Maisie:I guess, from my perspective, and I'll I'll kind of raise the question to you guys is, if you take the framework of Christianity and the, say, just the gospels or key messaging from the bible, and you use your God given inherent, however you want to phrase it, moral intuition, most of the time, Is it really that difficult to understand? I would argue no. Now, there are very contentious issues within the church, when it comes to gay marriage, when it comes to what the family unit should look like. But, from my perspective, on 99.9% of things that humans choose not to overcomplicate within the Bible were pretty clear. And I guess, even without assessing the pros and cons of the moral framework, be it contradictory, be it consistent, however you view it within Christianity.
Maisie:This increased attention to the Bible and church is a sign that people are searching for a stable moral framework. Now, I've forgotten the quote actually, but a famous famous moral philosopher? Or may I don't know. But there is a famous quote that says that religion is philosophy for the masses. So, in some words, it's kind of a watered down version of philosophy that people can understand a little bit better and is a little bit clearer.
Maisie:Now, you agree with that or not, I guess my point is, the return to church and searching for a stable moral framework is very much in line with the consideration of ethics, purpose, and morality. So the New York Times actually highlighted this, that many turn back to Christianity for clear ethical anchors, where moral relativism breeds anxiety. And I think I can understand that. I I think I can definitely understand that. Whether or not you agree something is right or wrong, I think the more we turn into, not to quote Piers Morgan, but facts don't care about your feelings, the more you start turning into, oh, well, you can't really say that because of this or this, knowing in this particular context, I mean, if we think about how the law functions or is meant to function in The UK, there's some very clear moral Christian underground to that or or moral framework to that, however you want to argue it, which is you shouldn't steal, you shouldn't kill other people, you should be respectful towards others and your neighbor, You should pay your taxes and duty to society.
Maisie:There's a lot of things that feed into that, and I guess, you know, when we we go into the realm of, oh, yeah, but in this particular instance, then this, and and and well, no. You can't really say that because of that kind of hinting at a little bit of outrage culture, and we become too subjective. We get into a little bit of nonsense. Now, that's not to say that our legal system doesn't allow for context, because of course it does. We talk about extenuating circumstances or all facts are considered of the individual or or, you know, crime of passion or whatever happens.
Maisie:But the principles remain that moral relativism, in my opinion, breeds anxiety. And that does not mean we can't be compassionate, or contextual, or have different opinions. It just means that there's a search for something a little bit more than, well, it depends. So, the last kind of return factor to Christianity and the church kind of linked to community, but I think it's the return to the respect for the family unit. Now, your family unit may look very different to my family unit, to somebody else's family unit.
Maisie:But when we talk about raising children, and that currently within The UK, fertility has hit a record low, and actually 1.41 children per woman in 2024. Not so sure about that one, clearly an average statistic, but it's been the lowest since 2002. So how does that link to Christianity? Well, when it comes to the Bible, the church, the Christian faith, there is a large role for the importance of family. And even within, you know, the Jewish community, the idea of a Sabbath, the idea of a day of rest on Sunday, for example, for Christians, taking time with your family away from your phones, away from all the rubbish of the week, and the idea of married life providing a stable basis to raise children, and the commitment that you make within that.
Maisie:And equally, with the declining population, you know, I know a lot of influential figures, including mister Elon Musk, talked about the the decline of of the West population, but it's a real issue. So I constellation of factors, this turning towards Christianity and going to church as a bit of a access point for all of those things seems to be popular at the moment. So consumerism, social isolation, moral drifting, Seems that the church is providing a little bit of a safe haven for people in their youth that are looking to agree some habitual rituals, a shared narrative, and ultimately a sense of belonging and responsibility. I think that duty and responsibility are probably, you could argue they're inherently moral ideas, and I think people are looking for purpose and a little bit more to hold on to. So if this episode does resonate, please do hit subscribe and leave a review.
Maisie:We're trying our best here. And also, from a podcast perspective, we're really trying to evaluate all sides and generate a bit of a conversation unashamedly and arrive at a real understanding of what we're talking about. So we don't profess to be the experts, but we do profess to not like easy answers and to think things through. So if that's your vibe, click subscribe and follow the podcast because we'd really appreciate the support. I guess from a a personal perspective, you know, being a child raised in England, a lot of primary schools are obviously grounded in Christianity, whether that's bible stories, hymns at assembly time when you're cross legged on wooden floors, in every morning assembly, really.
Maisie:And then later in my life, I studied philosophy and ethics at university, because I was really still wrestling with the bigger questions. And to be honest, still am. I I think it's an ongoing thing. But I struggled with the idea of of moral moral relativism. So over time, I guess this resurgence of Christianity, faith, church attendance is also aligning with my own personal journey of coming back to the bigger questions and really trying to build a rich foundation for how I live my life and how I support others.
Maisie:So what's your perspective? Is this rise in church attendance just a bit of a fluke? Is it triggered by other things going on in the world? Or is there actually something in it? I'll let you decide, but I guess some tips from today's discussion for being able to integrate this thinking into our lives is, what do I believe and why?
Maisie:And how do I continually practice that? Because, I guess a lot of these things say, they stay theoretical, don't they? You know, it's very easy to sit in your armchair and say, oh, well, I believe in this, I believe in that, no, not in this circumstance. But how do you actually practice those? Where's the consistency in it?
Maisie:So Aristotle referred to virtue as the continual practice of moral excellence. Continual practice. So you may do your charity run at work once a year, but what are you doing really continuously? You may believe in the importance of family. Family is everything.
Maisie:But are you going around to your parents this weekend for Sunday dinner, and you bring dessert? Just a little bit of challenge of the think the thinking there. And I guess, in terms of some some tips to take away today, we've thought of a few. So, challenging and interrogating your values and engaging with other people in constructive conversation. This is probably one of the biggest things.
Maisie:At the moment, we've lost the art of debate and conversation. So how quickly can you think of a time where somebody had a different opinion to you? And actually, in quite quick time frames, the conversation just descended into something quite personal. And went left, went right, went up, down. But there wasn't a mutual respect to reach a middle ground.
Maisie:And that's why this podcast is called right side of middle. Right being moral side of middle. So we're trying to get off the fence and actually know where we stand and why, and respect other people for where they stand too. I'd also recommend we read and discuss a chapter on whether it's moral philosophy, ongoing political issues, equally, you know, a chapter of a religious text, if that's your bag. But we talked about, you know, believing in helping other people or having a moral framework that lies to that.
Maisie:But have you actually got a whether you call it a service project or a community project that you do regularly? Remember, continue your practice of excellence. So that's great. You can point to the one time you did the mud run with all your mates, and you'd raise money for charity. What have you done since?
Maisie:What do you commit to every week? And then in terms of the commitment to others, I guess also a commitment to yourself. You know, I go to the gym, I run sometimes, I try to eat good food. Those are ways that I look after my physical body. And a lot is focused on in mental health as well, right rightly so.
Maisie:And the impact of certain aspects of our lives, like drinking, social media, you name it, on on mental health. But what do you do to look after your soul? Or your moral, being, or however you want to describe it so that you're comfortable, what do you do to continually practice your spirituality or who you are? Do you pray? Do you meditate?
Maisie:Do you manifest? Do you actually think about what kind of virtues and what you stand for in your household? Do you have a shared understanding with your other half and your children, your parents? Even something simple as a as a mindful walk, ironically without a podcast in your ears, and just having that quiet. And I guess that links to what we talked about in one of the the attractions of church attendance, is having that time to have a a spiritual practice.
Maisie:And make sure your choices are intentional. I A lot of the time we're on autopilot and we're not often asking ourselves these questions with a frequency that actually arrives at real change. And ask those questions of other people around you as well. Why do you think that? Shall we try to go and do this?
Maisie:Ask your family. Shall shall we shall we go to church this weekend? Or, you know, what do you think about blah blah blah at the dinner table? And just start a conversation. So if you like this episode, please drop a comment, follow.
Maisie:Each week, we are going to be asking ourselves some pretty tricky questions and the type of conversations that sometimes you feel a little bit awkward about having with other people. But there's no cal cancel culture here. There's no extreme opinion, divisive insults. It's actually just trying to get to the bottom of of what we believe and why. So pull up a chair.
Maisie:Let's start talking, and welcome to the right side of middle.