Hello, and welcome to the right side of middle. Since August 2025, Operation Raise the Colors has swept The UK, seeing Union Jack and St George's cross flags title land posts in at least 40 UK local authorities. Critics say it's a signal of the far right increasing. Supporters say it's simply national pride. This movement is set within an increasing influx of illegal small boat arrivals, ideological tensions, whilst net legal migration outpaces unauthorized entries by roughly four to one.
Maisie Gallagher:Is flying our flag a far right call, British pride, or something deeper? Let's get into it. Hello. I'm Maisie Gallagher, and welcome to the right side of middle, a podcast for people seeking moral clarity in an extreme world. We pull up a chair, challenge assumptions, and have a worthwhile conversation.
Maisie Gallagher:Each episode, we will explore difficult choices, ethical tensions, and refuse easy answers. Together, we will drive calm, rigorous conversations that cut through current outrage culture, offering tools to make better decisions and arrive at our opinions with intention. Hopefully, we will leave with clearer principles, sharper judgment, knowing exactly where our feet are. So tune in, pull up a chair, and let's try to restore some thoughtful conversation. Raise the flag.
Maisie Gallagher:Patriotism or a warning signal? Today we're discussing Operation Raise the Colors, and together we'll unpack: What does the raise the flag movement mean? What are the claims counterclaims? Definitions and context? There's a lot of descriptive words that are getting thrown around by people who both participate in, support, and criticize the Raise the Colors movement.
Maisie Gallagher:The numbers, what are we looking at in terms of migration and plunging youth pride, or is it in fact increasing? Political campaigns and a global wave of nationalism? Where is this happening and why? In The UK, we're seeing the reform party increase in popularity, Donald Trump's appeal to nationalism overseas, and equally Europe shift. The colonial context, why why is there a level of hesitation when talking about British pride?
Maisie Gallagher:And is it time we move beyond that? Let's get into it. So, Operation Raise the Colors. I don't know about you guys, but from a UK perspective, I've seen this be pretty controversial. So in a lot of newspapers, it's depicted as an extreme movement that is against anything other than kind of white British representation.
Maisie Gallagher:In other parts of both the Internet and written word, I've seen it be described as as simply national British pride. And when you look at some of the protests and events that are going on in The UK, this isn't simply just one demographic of people purporting to support their only demographic. And in these protests, you see a variety of different people turning out to support certain movements. So what's going on here? I guess from a definitions perspective, when we're talking about patriotism and what it means to be patriotic, it's essentially a definition of expressing love for one's country, its customs and its shared values.
Maisie Gallagher:Obviously, there were a variety of different definitions available, but I felt that this is the one that's most important and encompassing. Simply because it's not just about, oh, yes, I love being British, or I love England, or I love this country and what it gives for us, but actually, it's about saying I also love and respect our shared values and customs. So I think that's a really important point is that in order to be patriotic, there is a, not only a love of your country, but there is a love of the shared customs, shared values that you have that underpins the framework of the society in which you're in. So some say that those who support Raise the Colors are actually right wing. So what does it mean to be right wing?
Maisie Gallagher:Well, it's a political stance valuing tradition, hierarchy, national sovereignty, and limited government. Okay. That's an interesting one. Because that that word gets thrown around or those words get thrown around quite a lot. Oh, well, you know, he's really right wing or she's really right wing or that's a bit of a right wing view.
Maisie Gallagher:But actually, as a as a definition, political stance valuing tradition, I think you could read the word tradition in a few ways based on your own kind of experience or interpretation. Hierarchy, national sovereignty. Well, that's kind of increased anyway when we look at, you know, the views around leaving the European Union, whatever your stance was, and the right for us to protect our borders. We'll come on to that in a little bit later. But I think national sovereignty is a topic that's been increasing in interest, discussion, and popularity.
Maisie Gallagher:Limited government. Interesting. So the role of government and the extent to which it should support, facilitate, or directly input into everyday citizens' lives has actually been a bit of an undercurrent, both in terms of, you know, freedom of speech, policing, freedom of the press. It it really is, I think, becoming increasingly more topical. So I guess that could be why this this raise the the colors movement is actually hitting on a lot of whether you call them salt spots or accumulated interests of people living in The UK and overseas, it seems at the moment.
Maisie Gallagher:Is it right wing? Is it simply patriotism? Is it bad to be a little bit right wing? I guess there's a stigma, isn't it? You know, we can associate those St George's flags and the great British flags being tied to lampposts as kind of a a football hooligan, anti anything that's diverse stance, or just playing a little bit of an advocate role, we could challenge ourselves intellectually to think a little bit differently.
Maisie Gallagher:And that's not to say that this is the right thing or the wrong thing to be doing in The UK at the moment, but I think to get our broad brush out and to say, I believe that every single one of those people who supports or takes interest in the movement at the moment, whether that's a increase in British nationalism or pride, an increase in wanting to protect borders, or an increase in even just kind of having respect for our kind of common values and national identity is, you know, fascist or right wing or this or that. I think we're doing a lot of people a disservice. I I think there's a little bit of intellectual snobbery there that goes with this to say, I am making a massive assumption of how you've arrived at your perspective and because I don't think that initially aligns with what I'm thinking, I'm gonna use a descriptive word that kind of demonizes you in a way. And I think this is this is a sign of a of a bigger thing, right, is we have kind of got to a stage where when we have conversations and people disagree with us or vice versa, we revert to almost this Twitter sphere.
Maisie Gallagher:Insulting. Do you disagree with me? Oh okay, well you're a fascist. Oh you have a different view with me? Oh okay, well you're this or you're that'.
Maisie Gallagher:And I think labelling somebody as an insulting word or a bad thing is a lot easier than unpacking what's going on. And actually, it's an excuse to be intellectually lazy. And we're not gonna do that. We're gonna dig into it. So, in that sense, that's the the kind of definitions sorted.
Maisie Gallagher:I I think it would be fair to say that the current 'Raise the Colors' movement is either coinciding or feeding off a real topical matter which is both legal and illegal migration. Now, I don't think we can ignore the fact that migration is also a good thing. Incredibly good thing. And The UK has benefited from a lot of experienced, dedicated, hardworking individuals that contribute towards our country. But we also have a right to question whether the current level of migration, whether legal, illegal, is sustainable, and whether it's actually benefiting the country at the moment.
Maisie Gallagher:So what the figure is actually saying, is it being blown out of proportion? Not sure. So the UK Home Office said that in 2020, a 175,000 unauthorized small boat arrivals came into The UK. So I'm guessing that's how many people to to a boat. It's it's quite could be quite a lot.
Maisie Gallagher:However, net legal migration outstripped illegal entries by roughly four to one. So is it being blown out of proportion here? You know, we're we're talking about a lot of kind of illegal migration in The UK, that's, you know, you pick up any newspaper or scroll online. It's always the illegal immigration that's being highlighted, which which could be a fair point, given the the impact it's having at the moment with certain certain incidents in The UK that are being reported related to crime. But is it getting a proportionate level of attention?
Maisie Gallagher:You know, four to one. So for every one illegal migrant that's coming into The UK, whether or not held or deported, you've got four to one ratio on that in terms of legal people signing up, following the system, proving themselves that they are filling a criteria in order to come to our country, feels a little bit blown out of proportion. However, this put in conjunction with, and let's remember that correlation is not causation, only thirty one percent of eighteen to twenty four year olds say they're proud to be British, which is down from 45% in 2019. And I think I can see that. You know, I I from my own qualitative experience, I think there is a level of embarrassment or awkwardness that comes around having British pride at the moment.
Maisie Gallagher:And I think it's a shame. I think it's a real shame. And that doesn't mean that you're being proud of every not so great part of our history. But equally, it's remembering that there is a context to which that history operates within, and you are allowed to be proud of your country. And just because that country is of a certain demographic or of a certain history or of a certain this or that, that shouldn't stop anybody being proud of of the country they've come from or the country they live.
Maisie Gallagher:So interesting. The numbers are obviously from 2020. We know that's increased since. The ratio is current, and there's a decline in 18 to 24 year olds on whether or not it's they're proud to be British. Whereas over sixties, 72% of them say they're proud to be British.
Maisie Gallagher:Older generations, much more proud of being from The UK. Interesting. So I guess if we if we consider the political campaigns in this kind of global wave or backdrop, we're seeing Reform UK's messaging on sovereignty, cohesion, really mirroring Trump's kind of America first rhetoric. It's something that Guardian picked up. In addition, nationalist parties are now governing or co governing in six EU states.
Maisie Gallagher:So Sweden, Sweden Democrats rank second, and Italy's brothers of Italy lead the coalition. Also, the Saint George's Cross was once co opted by the English Defense League. This kind of illustrates as well how extremist groups, political groups can hijack patriotic symbols and whether or not we should, a, allow that to happen, but b, whether there's a an element of reclaiming what it means to be nationalistic or proud that moves away from this aggressive, exclusionary, confrontational nature. And by staying quiet about those problems, we're actually giving more of a void for bad opinions and bad behaviours to fulfil. Whereas actually, if you talk about representation or leading by example, if you have well behaved, good hearted, well meaning people being proud to be British, and openly expressing that and discussing that, that provides a fantastic, fantastic basis for a society.
Maisie Gallagher:And maybe that's what what this raise the flag is about, is it's not about exclusion. It's about we're proud to be British in The UK, let's discuss. And I guess we've got to be got to be committed to understanding that, or committed to understanding this claim, because too easy are we pushed to either end of the spectrum of somebody's either a waving liberal and they're way too kind of freewheeling with their views, or somebody's a a fascist right wing person and they're the end other end of the spectrum. Is it about just taking a moment to appreciate that either end of those spectrums are very, very, very loud voices, But there's a big, big proportion of people in the middle that are trying to get their voice heard, that just aren't being heard at the moment. And I guess this is where we come on to kind of free thinkers or intellectual perspectives on this.
Maisie Gallagher:And somebody I've been following for a while is actually Douglas Murray. He's a political journalist and commentator. Fantastic, fantastic speaker. And also not afraid to say what he thinks. He's written a few books, very controversial recently, whether you agree with him or not.
Maisie Gallagher:But he highlighted you know, the the juxtaposition between increased migration and nationalism without meaningful integration is accelerate accelerate accelerating Europe's dilemma. So if we go back to the first point where we talked about what does it mean to be patriotic? Well, we talked about the fact that it's it's not just expressing love for one's countries. It's about having shared customs and shared values. So if you're asking me, well well, Maisie, how does how does migration come into this?
Maisie Gallagher:Well, it's about those shared customs and shared values, isn't it? Because from a British perspective, we do have a shared undercurrent of values, ways of living, ways of interacting, what we view as being fundamental human rights, freedom of expression, freedom of speech. And I think I've always operated the policy that if you're of that thinking and you want to contribute to our country and you will also be proud, you know, to to contribute to British society, brilliant. Absolutely fantastic. In my opinion, it's your flag too.
Maisie Gallagher:If you if you live here and you contribute and integrate into British society and values and ways of living, it's it's it's a no brainer. There's there's there's nothing controversial about that in my view. I think what we're talking about here is when we're kind of dancing around the subject in, you know, in an ironic perspective, you could say, oh, we're being quite British about it, is kind of answering the question, are there pockets of society that aren't integrating, that aren't accepting that kind of shared value, shared living, shared perspectives of how society should function. And that's that's not to say a difference of opinion. I just wanna wanna be accurate here when we're talking.
Maisie Gallagher:You know, if if somebody wants to I don't know. Within legal bounds, do a certain thing, dress a certain way, do this, do that, love a certain person, That that's just different kind of life's perspectives, paths. But what we're talking about here is is the integration into British society, the customs, how we value whether you're a man or a woman, how we value yeah. It's even something as simple as, you know, having communities that are fully integrated together. So walking down the street, knocking on your neighbor's door, albeit, you know, in an idealistic world, and having that kind of common ground and understanding, and a cultural link, as well as a, you know, just, well, we live on the same street link.
Maisie Gallagher:And I think that's something that's really different like, difficult to put our finger on. And I think that's why, you know, a lot of the time we skirt around this conversation. So a couple of of data points could be, for example, you know, the amount of people that have English as their first language in terms of integration. Or maybe even a a kind of survey on cultural norms or values. But I think we know what we're talking about here.
Maisie Gallagher:It's just it's difficult to put your finger on. And I guess, to kind of dive into that colonial perspective, You know, Charlie Kirk has has has talked a lot, especially in his right wing revolution, about reclaiming Western heritage and national symbols, and it being vital to beat the woke and save the West. I felt a degree of pressure, actually. And I felt that personally, you know, that being proud to be British is often associated with a direct line to being, you know, racist or fascist or not even that, just being not culturally clued up because of our history and what's happened in the past. And when we're talking about history, we're talking about the British Empire and colonies, right?
Maisie Gallagher:And I guess it's really important for us to understand the role of that, and perhaps if it's actually being leaned on too much, and shaming the youth of The UK into not valuing or being proud of being British? Because that's that's actually kind of, you know, counter counter narrative, isn't it? You know, to say, well, you've got a history and this happened in the past. It was way before you were born, before the person before you was even born, therefore, your national identity is not something we can speak about or be proud about. You've got to give more room to other identities.
Maisie Gallagher:And I think that's a two part thing. Right? Do we need to be inclusive and do we need to appreciate other cultures? A 100%. 100%.
Maisie Gallagher:But that first piece around being ashamed of being British and not understanding our colonial footprint on the world, I think we need to put this into kind of a broader perspective, particularly when we're talking about kind of British imperial history and empires. We can get into a one-sided shaming match, But I think we can still look to the information and still retain a healthy amount of British pride. So I'll give you an example. Mongol Empire, 12/1368. So the campaigns are estimated to have caused thirty to forty million deaths.
Maisie Gallagher:Ottoman Empire, 1453 to 1,600. Roughly 1.5 to 3,000,000 people enslaved from Europe and Africa by the late sixteenth century. Slaves made up of 20% of inst insta Istanbul's population. Now this isn't this isn't kind of a a child slinging match, and going, oh, well, you know, they did it too, and look how bad this is over here. It no.
Maisie Gallagher:That's that's not the just to be very clear, that is not the discussion we're having right now. The discussion that we're having is we need to be very careful and very accurate when we're placing, placing history into context. And no doubt, there are atrocities that have been committed throughout history. But I think pulling that thread all the way through to present day, and then saying therefore, you know, national pride means ABC, I don't agree with that. And I think that when we're looking at colonization, empires, wars, invading, you know, this is not just a Western thing.
Maisie Gallagher:The human cost associated with this is not just a Western thing. And admittedly, you know, you could if you could walk on water, walk around the world at one point and still be on British soil. To have no doubt the the reach that our nation had through illegitimate, you could argue, means previously, and and the suffering can go up beyond that. But there's also, you know, there's a lot of good things that Britain has been known for across the centuries. And I just don't wanna let our kind of proportion of of history within a context of it at the time make us more shameful of of what it means to be British.
Maisie Gallagher:And I think it's a I think it's a it's a increased dose of medicine to a problem that is no longer there. Or when we're talking about creating an equal society should we be making young people who are British feel ashamed to be who they are? I don't know. I'll I'll kind of float that out. Is is that a that a medicine to this?
Maisie Gallagher:Is that the way we want to go forward? How do we get to a place where I can be proud to be British, celebrate my my heritage and my country, and, you know, have a pretty middle of the road view that kind of anybody who wants to integrate into our society and our values, get on board. Anybody that wants to live here and contribute and integrate into our society, you know, learn the English language, accept the fact that we are a Christian country. Now that doesn't mean that you need to be Christian, but that that's our heritage. You know, just like if you went to, I don't know, Saudi Arabia, you'd probably appreciate the fact that it's very Islamic.
Maisie Gallagher:If you went to different parts of the world, it would be maybe a Sikh country or a so I don't think we need to shy away from this anymore. And I think we've kind of overcompensated to the extent that we've, you know, been kind of battered on the head with the history of a colonial past, that we've overcompensated with how we've viewed British pride. And like with anything, I think I think there's a middle ground here, which a large proportion of people are are trying to advocate for, whether it's the media, whether it's politicians, whether it's, I don't know. Whether it's it's an idea of virtue signaling of what it means to be inclusive or or woke is pushing us to either end of the spectrum. And it's it's become this weird thing where to degrade being proud of your country if you are British is is a sign of virtue.
Maisie Gallagher:And I don't know if I agree with that. I really don't. So in no way is that a that a condoning of of kind of, you know, British Empire's actions. But equally, we need to put British history into context and prevent disproportionate national guilt because that that isn't something that's gonna breed the kind of society that we want to. So what do supporters claim?
Maisie Gallagher:Well, supporters say putting out British flags and Saint George's flags is is simply about inclusive pride in British history and civic values. You think about when you're younger in The UK, what do you think of when you see the flags? You think of jubilees. You think of English football games. You think of, you know, garden parties or barbecues.
Maisie Gallagher:That's a complete absence of exclusion or hate. And I think we need to reclaim that. You know, if you work, pay taxes, uphold the law, share our customs and values, the flag is yours too. So, what's kind of happened here? Well, I think national symbols have been co opted by far right agitators potentially, you know, just as on the extreme side in terms of the EDL.
Maisie Gallagher:Banning the flag has also been floated. I mean, absolutely not, in my view. I think that's abhorrent. Can you imagine if we were having any other discussion about banning another country's flag? Horrendous.
Maisie Gallagher:And then I think that there's been a poor, heavy handed application of what's viewed as inclusivity, in terms of cultural integration. So you have schools across the country where there is a lack of integration of communities that have maybe migrated here, or maybe on a cultural pseudo religious location sense, language barriers, parallel communities living in silos, not integrating with British society. So actually, is the problem that we're getting scared to challenge these things at the moment? And is that really helping everyone? And is it making, you know, those people in the communities feel included?
Maisie Gallagher:You know, is it is it the more extreme members of those communities that are actually isolating the whole community? And, as always, do we need to just have more thoughtful dialogue and discussion? So for me, what does it mean? Growing up in The UK, as I've said, English and British flags, a source of joy. I remember World Cups, community face painting, as I said, bunting, street parties.
Maisie Gallagher:And I and I can recognize the challenge, Maisie, is this is this the sentiment that's reflected when these people are tying lampposts across the country right now? And I'd say no, but I'd also say yes. So I'd say that it's a it's a level of frustration that this is coming from. It's it's a frustration that the current time that we live in doesn't reflect that level of national pride. So I would say the emotion behind it is different.
Maisie Gallagher:It's one of frustration, but I would say potentially. And and I can't speak for for lots of people, but the the core sentiment of where we wanna get to is the same. But I'll ask you. Do you think that we've overcompensated? Do you think it's purely hatred?
Maisie Gallagher:Do you think it's intellectually lazy just to say, yeah, anyone that kind of gets on board with this movement is clearly just a bam, bam, bam, bam? I think we can do better than that. I think we can have conversations. I think we can talk and challenge about whether or not we feel that our major cities are integrating culturally well enough, what it means to be British, whether or not we've actually need to kind of shake the shame shadow a little bit and just have more dialogue. So some rapid fire tips maybe to take away.
Maisie Gallagher:First of all, as I'm trying to do, I'm I'm learning as much as possible, but every day is a school day. You know, maybe pick up some journalism or statistics that actually counter your current perspective. A couple of things that I'd recommend to read are, you know, Douglas Murray's The Strange Death of Europe is very interesting. Charlie Kirk's Right Wing Revolution. I've also actually been reading The Spectator recently, which is actually some really cracking journalism.
Maisie Gallagher:There's some articles in there that I I very much disagree with. There's some that I think are fantastic, but we've gotta start reading things and having conversations that challenge our perspectives on this. Because the minute we start seeing people as their opinion, we have a problem. So how do we love our country in a way that's consistent with national pride along with being I almost don't wanna use the word inclusive. But, yeah, like fostering a community in a country that people wanna be a part of and contribute towards.
Maisie Gallagher:So I guess that's the question. Ultimately, we've seen that a simple flag tied to a lamppost can spark complex debates, national outrage, And it's really got people's attention. So, why why has it got so much attention? Why is this pressing on such an issue at the moment? Why is it so important?
Maisie Gallagher:Why is it like litmus paper? I think there's a lot of really interesting topics that are heading towards a similar direction when we're talking about the role of government, when we're talking about, you know, the role of community and integration, when we're talking about national identity and pride, freedom of speech. Some really chunky topical issues that are in mainstream debate at the moment. It's And really important we get involved, and that we keep talking.